TMBA 210: How To Get Rich

TMBA 210: How To Get Rich post image

It’s not hard to see why Michael Covel (here’s my interview on his show) is a mega popular podcaster– he’s a scrappy entrepreneur who made good and isn’t scared to share his opinions.

I’ve learned a lot from him through our conversations– about finance, world politics, and trading– but in this episode I really wanted to know: how does one get rich? I went right to the horse’s mouth and wasn’t disappointed.

In this episode we explore Michael’s story, and learn how he launched his exceptionally successful online business.

Listen to this week’s show and learn:

  • The hustle required to start from scratch and grow a small empire.
  • Why Michael believes young entrepreneurs should not diversify.
  • Lessons directly from 4 billionaires (and how you can learn them yourself).
  • Why the “cocktail on a beach” fantasy is bullshit.
  • Why money is not the same thing as power.
  • And to top it all off, how not to be a “jock sniffer.” :)

People on this episode:


What we’re excited about this week:

Listening options:

Thanks for listening to our show! We’ll be back next Thursday morning 8AM EST.



Dan & Ian

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Published on 09.19.13
  • Guest

    Hi Michael,

    “the evidence is alive and well.”

    Can you share some recent data to support this?

    “Trend following” as an investment/trading thesis is often found in the CTA space, and the CTAs employing this strategy have had just an awful past 5 years. I’m not saying trend following is dead, but clearly its recent performance (in terms of a *measurable* statistic) has been severely under-performing.

    I’d love to hear your take on it, and if you could, please include links to measurable/audited performance.

  • BrianFX

    Hi Michael,

    “the evidence is alive and well.”

    Can you give share some recent data to support this?

    As I’m sure you’re well familiar with already, “trend following” as an investment/trading thesis is often found in the CTA space, and the CTAs employing this strategy have had a very lackluster past 5 years (significantly under-performing the broader markets by a large degree). I’m not saying trend following is dead, but clearly its recent performance (in terms of a *measurable* statistic) has been severely under-performing.

    I’d love to hear your thoughts on this. And if you have links to measurable/audited recent performance of the strategy that shows otherwise, would like to see any as well.


  • To not let this thread devolve into a TF debate: Public data can be seen across my 5 books, website and 3rd party performance reporting services. An interesting paper on TF can also be seen in AQR’s “A Century of Evidence on Trend Following Investing.” My current thoughts (and others) on TF overall can be heard on my podcast. One point that you might not be aware of is that TF correlates with broader markets at about zero. Comparing to those benchmarks you mention is not the goal of TF. In fact, benchmarks, especially ones given sugar highs by the Fed, might not be the best center piece on your mantle (i.e. fragility).

  • If people are interested in a Pocket-like App for Android, Evernote w/Chrome clipper works awesome…
    1. Create a folder in Evernote called ‘Stuff to Read’, you don’t have Evernote yet it’s 2013 and it’s seriously time you got with the program! Did we mention it’s free?
    2. Install the Evernote web browser plugin for Google Chrome (I believe the other leading web browsers have Evernote plugins as well but if you are serious about your life hacking Google Chrome is the best). You will now see a little Evernote icon in the upper right corner of your web browser. 3. When you stumble upon an article that looks like it’s worth reading, click the little Evernote icon and select save article in the ‘Stuff to Read’ folder. It takes about 2 clicks and 3 seconds to save the article for later consumption, what’s especially awesome is that Evernote (usually) intuitively selects just the text of the article to save, not the distracting side banners or menus on the web page.
    4. Later on, when you’ve got some time to relax and enjoy some reading, pull up Evernote on your smartphone or tablet and you will find the article already downloaded to your device (if not just click the sync button in the Evernote app and you should have the article in moments). I prefer to turn off the other apps on the device so I’m not distracted by social media or email notifications while reading. If you are reading at night: save your eyes and circadian rhythm by taking a minute to turn down the brightness on the screen of your device.

  • Dan


  • Jimbo

    Great episode, politics aside.

    You asked him the passion or money question, and I’m not sure I understood his answer. He basically said work for yourself.

    Usually when you’re asking yourself the passion or money question, you’ve been pushed into it by the a-hole boss. Basically we assume entrepreneurship. Having followed both Cash at one time, and my passion when I was younger – the A-hole boss exists in employment for cash, and employment for passion.

    It’s the employment that sets up the condition where you subject yourself to people you don’t like (and often don’t like you).

    So if you choose yourself, (c) James Altucher, that brings us back to the passion versus money question. 1,000 days doing something you love (say becoming a modern dance instructor), versus a 1,000 days of trying to kill it (writing copy for elective surgery)..

    With you guys as an example, Cat Furniture, Portable Bars, and unnamed Industrial products – i’ve never heard you gush or wax poetic about any of those products or any of those businesses. So it’s clear to me, if they are in fact actually passion businesses, the passion comes from getting out there and hustling, not a love for the things you sell.

    Same with trading a portfolio. There’s probably an element of beating the other guy, but running screens and filters for charts looking for favorable up trends and down trends – sounds as fun as filling out TPS reports.

    Long Story Short – the meta narrative here is to choose $ and derive your pleasure from the pursuit. Which may or may not be a Cal Newport way of looking at things (you derive pleasure from mastery)

    Awesome episode though.

  • “Do you want to spend every day of your life saying ‘Yes sir!’ to an asshole?”

    Evernoted under ‘inspirational quotes’ :D

    Great talk guys & appreciated hearing perspective from someone outside the typical ‘lifestyle business’ crowd.

  • Dan

    Whole episode there brother! I remember “loving” our products for the year we developed the designs and marketing. Our attention to detail was 100%. We realized that we needed to pour ourselves into our products and markets if we ever wanted to ask something back from them (our freedom).

    Could cat furniture have sustained my passion? Perhaps…. it’s an interesting question to ask. It put us in a position where we could chose other things and we did.

    Love this topic :)

  • Dan

    hahah cheers Daryl.

  • Pat

    So, what are the 20 books that you need to read before starting to invest?

    Very entertaining podcast by the way. Incredible story of just constantly putting yourself in the mix.

  • Dan
  • Steve

    couldn’t agree more…love the podcast, but it never answered the question about ‘how to get rich’. it was a good story, but the title was misleading. he made his $ via trading his account, writing some books, making a movie, etc. it was more like ‘how one man got rich living life on his terms’.

  • This is my favorite episode to date. I kind of mentally glossed over the trading part but the rest was great. However the part that spoke to me very personally was the political tip/stoic comment at the end.

    You’re gonna die, the government is not on your side, now get to work :)

  • Dan

    thanks Kyle appreciate that.

  • Dema

    Hi Dan and Ian, you guys rock, if I were a chick I would hit on you.
    Good start, ok now to my comment/question;
    Where is the link to the “methodologies minimum viable product (MVP) WordPress templates”? I’ve looked all over the site nowhere to be found!
    Keep it up!

  • Dan

    Dema appreciate the love! I’m not sure what you are referring to here can you clarify? We use stuff like

  • Mark Nibert

    This was my first time listening to your podcast. It was recommended to me by a friend and we have started working together on a website and have some further ideas on how to market ourselves. This was such a great interview and really lit a fire. I do currently have the typical job making decent money just sitting at a desk. I want to move on and out and do my own thing and get that financial freedom. That is what being rich is to me.

    Being new to the site I am not sure where to look. I am looking to start a podcast and for this adventure it will be focused on the strength training world. Do you have any items that go over what mic’s, sound cards etc you can use to produce the best results? Also, if you do any mentoring or interning with this let me know. I have always been told I have a voice for radio (they probably meant face) so I am really excited to move forward with this.

  • Dan

    Cheers Mark I really appreciate that, this article is a good start RE: podcasting:

  • Scott Gringo Blair

    Felt like he should have stayed in politics…….he never answered anything…lol….seemed really evasive.

    But the redeeming moment was …”Do you want to spend every day of your life saying ‘Yes sir!’ to an asshole?”. Priceless motivation right there!

  • Dan

    it doesn’t come across like that in person as he’s willing to lay it all out there, probably didn’t do a good job of pulling it out as i wanted to move from topic to topic and through the story.

  • Ha! I’m sitting in Newt Gingrich’s office listening to this and Newt was mentioned. Good times.

    (obviously, I’m listening to some past shows, heh)

  • Dan

    wow! didn’t expect a comment like that, ballin! :)

  • Dillon Carter

    I have listened to this episode a multitude of times. I have enjoyed learning about trading but have never had the confidence to get started trading. I feel like trend following could be a great way for someone my age (22) to get started building wealth. Do you, Dan or Covel believe that someone could start with a low amount of money and through Trent Following build enough wealth to sustain any lifestyle? I would really like to know more. I plan on buying the The Complete TurtleTrader book to research further.

  • Dan

    Hey Dillon thanks for that!!! I think you need a stake either way, still small business is the better opportunity in my view… i know very small small biz entrepreneurs who spend a lot of time trading, however, and they generally built their stake from small business profits

  • Jerry Krause

    My best, best, very best investment ever. You simply have no idea. My one time hint is go to: The ball is in your court.

  • Thinh

    I’m a Vietnamese and I found the picture of Ho Chi Minh museum with the quote is uniquely hilarious! big LOL for that!

  • ;)

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